democrats and congress raised the debt ceiling 12 times for president reagan upon his request. what's unprecedentside that we have never seen congress try to use the debt ceiling as a tool of negotiation. that violates. >> bill: we have a frightening amount of debt now. $16.5 trillion. and i gave you the stats up top about president obama's spending more than every other president combined. so that it's a different situation than it was under ronald reagan. now, i understand that the president can't order congress to raise the debt. he can't do that by any order. buff he can ignore it it he can -- don't worry about it keep paying stuff off. is that true? is that what he can do? >> well, that's roughly the case. i mean, they have tried to find other solutions. you have heard about mint the coin operation? >> bill: what is the trillion-dollar coin? what is that all about? >> it's a loophole if you will in federal law. the government is not allowed to print money, new money to pay its debts. but there is is a provision for platinum coins, specifically only for plat mum coins that